Subject: Todd Bentley Revival in Lakeland
By-'A Lakeland Resident'
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 22:46:41 -0400
Hi,
I live in Lakeland and I have a few observations.
First, I work and live in this "revival" town and have yet to have anyone of the tens of thousands who have been "revived" contact any of my non-Christian friends. In fact they're oblivious to the goings on as are most of the area, besides maybe seeing/hearing/reading some of the local media giving a token reporting of what is going on.
It seems to be a "groupie" revival, just for the "hungry" Christians, I guess. Thousands are spending their hard earned, or church's, money to make the pilgrimage to the latest "outpouring."
I understand people being hungry for God.
I believe God heals, delivers, and sets free those who call upon His Name. Otherwise, what are we praying for?
There is a spirit in Lakeland, but how much is of the Holy Spirit and how much is flesh?
I have been listening to Todd since about the first week of the revival, after a pastor friend forwarded an email from Stephen Strader, the pastor of Ignited Church, the host church for the "revival," attached.
I was appalled that a pastor would send a 5 page long document as an email, about a "revival" without the mention of JESUS or the BIBLE, and with only mentioning God five times. But to make up for it, he mentions the name of TODD 23 times. Please, check it out for yourself.
I was immediately tempted to reply to that friend to not send me any more garbage emails like that, when I had the wisdom to share my response with my wife, and she said he wouldn't understand, as he and several from his church were excited about this "revival."
So what do I do, when people I know are engrossed with a "revival" that's all about Todd, and what Todd is doing, how Todd's seen angels, how Todd's anointing is so wonderful, and how God is supposedly healing?
I decided to watch the revival services, as broadcasted by Ignited Church, and check it out for myself.
The worship was typical charismatic Pentecostal contemporary worship. And then Todd took over.
What was notable was the "angels" references throughout the "ministry" time of Todd. He did read from the pulpit, not from the Word of God, but from a letter of supposed prophecy about what God was doing, about the "healing angel" that supposedly accompanied Todd, as was supposedly the case with other historical figures in "healing revivals."
What was and continues to be notably absent is any reason to bring a Bible to a service, any call for repentance or any call for holiness in the saints.
But there is a constant call to sew financially into this "revival," to come to Lakeland to take some of this (Todd's) anointing home with you, and to tell others about this "revival."
And the altar call prayer went something like, Jesus, come into my heart, I need you, I need your healing, I need.....I want....I need... I want...I want...I need...I want........thank you Jesus, amen. And then they were prayed for, many of Todd's converts fell to the floor under the push/anointing of Todd, and then they were shortly picked up by the ushers to make room for Todd to pray for others, at the end of the service.
To be fair, I would like to add that in most of the "salvation" prayers that I've heard of Todd's, he adds, "forgive me of my sins."
I was a bit concerned at the lack of reverence for God, lack of emphasis on Jesus or God's Word, and lack of any reference to repentance in the meetings.
But people were okay, because there were "signs" and "miracles" and "healings" that were apparent to them.
I decided to see if I could find out who Todd Bentley was.
The website he runs, freshfire.ca, is riddled with New Age and Gnostic teachings from Todd himself. Basically, there is simply heresy in many of his teachings.
I decided to share my newfound information with other people visiting the Ustream.tv page for Ignited Church, in the chat on the page.
Naturally those who adore Todd were opposed to any mention of his New Age, Gnostic teachings, or his heretical teachings about angels and speaking with dead people.
As the days went by, not much changed from Todd, but more and more became excited at the "revival, " wanted to come to Lakeland to participate, and what's better, those concerned about the revival began asking legitimate questions about Todd, his past, what was going on currently, and basically how is this "God."
And then came the Ignited chatroom moderators, to ban by IP, anyone who dared question the revival.
One day, in the middle of the afternoon, I posted this:
Colossians 2:8, 18-19 8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize.
Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19 He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.
Two minutes later, I was banned from the chatroom, by IP.
That same evening, back with a new IP, I noticed others posting concerns and even more Scriptures. Banned.
But with the changes in the chatroom, along with the change in "revival" venue to Auburndale, along came those seeking to see if this was God, from around the world.
People hungry to see God truly move in their lives, and wondering if this were real.
I've had the honor of chatting with many of them, sharing the truth of Todd's teachings and history, and pointing them to the Word of God.
And, since Ustream.tv is a video website, it allows users to comment on the videos/streams. I continue to post the truth about Todd as a comment to the Ignited Church's broadcasts, as a user.
Now it's approaching 8000 at the meetings, and they have to spend tens of thousands a night to host the event.
And an event it is, as people are coming to be touched, yet Lakeland is untouched.
Still my friends who are unsaved say they haven't heard about the meetings, except that I've asked.
So much for shaking this city, or anything for that matter, except for those affected by Todd's "ministry."
This "spirit" that has descended upon Lakeland, has attracted thousands, and will continue, if what I read in the chatroom is correct, for no other reason than that thousands are planning to come.
Too bad the sheep have to be proven stupid again.
Mail received by 'A Lakeland Resident'
Subject: Fw: RAW POWER! Healing Revival going on NOW!
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 21:26:24 -0400
REVIVAL EXTENDED FOR ANOTHER WEEK!!!
Stephen Strader
Apr 5, 2008
Dear Ignited Friends,
The revival will be extended another week!!!
When I stepped into the sanctuary Friday night, the atmosphere was different than I've ever felt before. There was intense praise & worship.
Expectancy was in the air. But something was definitely different!
Todd was looking at me with this "look" and I heard myself say to him, if you want to go another week, we're ready! He nearly exploded! He started telling me all of the things that were happening throughout the time prior to the service. Prophetic words and confirmations that we
should extend the meeting. He then got up and told the congregation!
The place went wild!
He had me share my feelings with the congregation. I had two of our prophetic members share prophesies. ALL IN AGREEMENT! FULL STEAM AHEAD!
There is just TOO much to share.
Then I had everyone to get on their knees and humble themselves before God. This was a SOBER MOMENT!!! The Healing Movement from Central Florida was being BIRTHED! I'm skipping over so much... but I'm trying to give you the highlights!
Todd told everyone, "I want to release this healing anointing over every person… tonight is a COMMISSIONING…"
There was a holiness in the room… the weight of God's glory was incredible.
Todd shared his experiences with the healing angel. He told everyone how he felt the healing angel touch his back several times in the Thursday night meeting.
Suddenly, the air shifted, and Todd began to give words of knowledge.
He called out Lupus, Lime Disease, Spinal Cord injury… the stage filled with about ten people…
Each time Todd’s left hand touched their hand or arm, the Holy Spirit would tell him what was happening… he commanded the disease to come out… the power would hit each one.
One lady with lupus… her eyes opened wide like she was seeing an angel… he saw that the Lupus was destroying her muscles and kidneys… she felt “lighter”… her right hand began shaking and moving… that was where the pain was the greatest… and she was healed… hands began to
tinkle… inflammation was going down…
A Lady brought her cell phone on stage with her daughter on the phone that has Lupus… Todd took the phone and asked the daughter… “how would you know that God has touched you… she said – I could walk without pain…” He commanded the pain to come out of her body… right over the phone… he told her to get up and move around… bend over… see if there is any pain… any heat? Todd had the whole crowd to reach out towards the cell phone as the lady was taking steps of faith… “what’s happening?” She started feeling sensation through her body…
Then Todd gave a word of knowledge, that someone in the right center section had a broken back… here she came… walking haltingly… she was about 70 years old… she laid back under the power… her husband told Todd she had a skiing accident 15 years ago on her honeymoon… Todd felt the healing angel came and stood over the lady on the floor…
Then Todd called out a tumor in the front of the throat… several came forward…
While they came, a man on the platform was standing in proxy for a friend with lupus… and Todd prophesied a healing anointing over the man to take it to the nations…
The first lady with a lump on her throat – swallowed and the lump was gone!
The second lady with lump – couldn’t find it…!
The angel interrupted Todd and said God was healing prostate…
A man on the stage had lumps and lupus… a heat was all over his body making him sweat…
The lady from the skiing accident stood up… he prayed for her again…
Another Word of knowledge for a man with a damaged spine – operation on
your spine - come now!
Suddenly the healing saturated the entire room… people began to moan and several even screamed as the power ripped through the audience.
Then the lady on the cell phone hollered out – her daughter’s pain was totally gone…
Then Todd called out everyone with two hearing aids…
While they were coming… he prayed for a man with prostate… slammed to the floor...
The husband of the lady injured in the skiing accident had damaged his hearing… he instantly grabbed his ears as he fell…
Then Todd called out for someone with a medical bracelet…
Then a man with enlarged prostate, also damage in the left ear, over he went!
A lady preacher had lumps on her liver… Todd felt fire shoot out of his hand as she fell… oh, the shouting fit she had!
Another man with hearing aids… Todd commanded the deaf and dumb spirit to leave… as he prayed, a sober presence of the HS came into the room…
Then several more with hearing problems…
Then a young lady with NO kidneys started feeling heat across her back… she came up on the stage… Todd told her he was feeling heat across his back…
Then a young girl got her dad on the phone – he had a lump on the throat – Todd told her to pray for him… the power of God began to shake her violently as she commanded the lump to go!
The young girl with NO kidneys said her back was growing hotter and hotter… Todd had her dad check her back, it was very hot…
Then a lady named Judy had text msg one of Todd’s team that she had a lump disappear from her breast the night before when Todd prayed… she came up to testify… the power began to flip her around like a puppet on strings… then out she went! BAM!
Then Todd lined up the whole church… prayed for everyone to receive an impartation for the healing anointing.
There is still time to get here!!! Saturday 10am 6pm Sunday 10am
6pm
Monday through Saturday 10am & 7pm nightly. The night services are
full to capacity. You have to get here at least 45 minutes early to
get into the sanctuary. After that, you'll probably sit in the overflow!
But don't worry. The Holy Spirit is IN THERE TOO!!!
2nd e-mail to Churchwarnings from 'A Lakeland Resident'
To: churchwarnings@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Todd Bentley Revival in Lakeland
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 09:24:57 -0400
I had a few more notables as well.
Ignited Church, the host church of this "revival," is one of two churches that were created when Carpenters Home Church sold their 10,000 seater facility, schools, and grounds as they were unable to support the costs, as the attendance was slipping.
Another pentecostal/charismatic church, Without Walls Central, affiliated with Randy and Paula White, purchased the properties in exchange for their church in Auburndale plus paying many millions.
The pastor of Carpenters went to the Auburndale church location, a 1500 seater church, with the core of the CHC congregation, and some went with the pastor's son, Stephen, to a for sale hardware store, similar to a small Home Depot or Lowes, and spent part of the proceeds from the sale of Carpenters to pay for the renovations and the county's first video church sign by the highway.
When the "revival" began to grow, and they did the math, they approached Without Walls to see if they could use their facilities, as thousands were to be expected in attendance in several weeks. They did not allow Ignited, or Fresh Fire to use their facilities, currently.
It is notable that none of the larger Charismatic/Pentecostal churches, Without Walls Central(Randy & Paula White), Victory Church(The Assemblies of God), or Family Worship Center (Word of Faith), three out of the 6 largest churches, all who one would consider "hungry for the move of God" have not come out in support of Todd, or this "revival."
In fact, I was surprised to hear that Sunday, a little over a week ago, one local charismatic style pastor, who I thought would heartedly embrace this revival, said this is not revival, for they do not preach repentance and Jesus is not central in their services.
People are waking up to facts. I had one young person in Europe note that their Dad and Mum were concerned about what they'd seen, and said that he would check out the information I provided.
Continue to pray for wisdom of those who are learning about this "revival."
Thousands are hearing that others say God is moving in Lakeland, and are booking reservations, rather than spending time with the Lord reading their Bibles, comparing the Bible to what they see and hear on the Ustream.tv Ignited Church broadcasts every day at 10am and 7pm, and researching Todd's teachings and history for themselves.
I guess to them, "feeling" the Holy Spirit is so much more important than making sure you're embracing the right spirit.
Do these sheep even know their Master's voice?
From-'A Lakeland Resident '
U.S.A.
_____________________________________
Note from CHURCHWARNINGS: 27th June 2008
This is a comprehensive compilation of a list of links
130 comments:
Answering to this 'Lakeland Resident' question, Do this sheep even know their master's voice? I would say that yes they are, that's why they are believing and being healed and encountering a real Jesus.
Remember what the men who was blind told to the pharisees:
"The man answered and said unto them, Why herein is a marvellous thing, that ye know not from whence he is, and yet he hath opened mine eyes. Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth". Juan 9:30-31
That is the answer for you from all the people who has being healed in this revival meeting at lakeland. Many who have suffered from years and others carrying a death sentence. You should talk to them and tell them their healing was not coming from Jesus as you claim.
Jesus is being Glorified in this meetings and people is being healed no doubt.
What comes to mind is something I read on one of the articles dealing with Todd Bentley, maybe even one of the articles linked from this website.
I kept a copy, as it reminds me of the spirit and attitude of those calling this a revival.
''"We are warned explicitly in Scripture that the devil transforms himself into an angel of light", and that in the Last Days will come 'Lying signs and wonders' that will "deceive if possible the very elect."
Do we really believe that the devil is unable to perform
miracles? ''
Have we forgotten what the Bible clearly says?"
I can't help but wonder if Lakeland is going to have the same problems that the Brownsville revival left in its wake.
I remember the church was furious at the local newspaper for publishing a series of stories about the revival (you can find them here: http://web.archive.org/web/19990223221315/www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/brownsville/). There was a whole series of articles run on Nov. 20, 1997 which questioned the claims of the Brownsville organizers to major changes (i.e., crime reduction) in the area as a result of the revival--but these could not be proven.
In particular, I'd also point people to this article, where the Brownsville revival attracted lots of people with very little money who basically became stranded there and needed help from local charities (most explicitly NOT the Brownsville Assembly of God church) to get moving again. http://web.archive.org/web/19990203015154/www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/brownsville/thursday/thu1.htm
People are getting charged up and encouraged to travel long distances to Lakeland for this revival, but what will they find? And what will they leave in their wake? We went through this over 10 years ago, but I'll bet money that the same things happen again in 2008 that happened in the mid-90s, only some of the cast members have changed.
TODD BENTLEY AND HIS SLAVE BOY HERETICS ARE LEADING PEOPLE INTO DOCTRINES OF DEVILS AWAY FROM THE SOUND DOCTRINES OF THE HOLY BIBLE. THOSE WHO FALL WITH THE HERETICS HAVE CHOSEN THEIR FATE, TO TURN AWAY THEIR EARS FROM THE TRUTH AND TURN UNTO FABLES AND VILE HERESY. THE BLIND LEADING THE BLIND THEY BOTH FALL IN THE DITCH. REPENT OF THIS TODD BENTLEY BLASPHEMY OR YOU WILL FALL WITH HIM AND ALL HIS HERETICS WHEN THEIR TIME COMES JUST LIKE IT HAS ALWAYS COME FOR HERETIC DECEIVERS IN ALL OF HISTORY. GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED.
ALL HERE WHO BELIEVE THE SOUND DOCTRINES OF THE BIBLE, MAKE SURE YOU FLOOD THOSE HERETIC'S SITE WITH QUOTES FROM THE WORD OF GOD EVERY DAY. PERHAPS A FEW OF THE DECEIVED WILL HEAR THE WORD OF THE BIBLE AND REPENT OF TODD BENTLEY BLASPHEMIES.
Jer 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
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Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
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Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
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Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
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Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect.
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Luk 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
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2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
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Blessings in Jesus Name. (Hesed isn't it?).
I am grieved by your continual attacks on what I believe to be a genuine move of God.
You claim that Todd teaches gnostic and new age heresy but you have not listed one example. Your words:
"The website he runs, freshfire.ca, is riddled with New Age and Gnostic teachings"
Ok then name one. This should be easy since his site is "riddled" with them. Unless you can back your words with some real evidence then please stay silent. Please be specific. If there is genuinely deception I want it to be exposed.
Such serious allegations against a fellow believer for whom Christ died...
What I saw last night was a stadium full of people worshiping God. I saw many healed in Jesus name and saw many accepting Jesus as LORD and savior.
On the chat I see people giving glory to God and praying for revival and for each other.
How is this Heresy? ...Can a demon open the eyes of one born blind?
All you have given me here is some unsubstantiated allegations of false teaching. And then a bunch of unconvincing arguments about the Jesus to Todd ratio in a pastor's email. Oh Please surly you can do better then that... and the fact that Todd talks about angels and prophetic experiences too much for your liking, and other he "should" arguments.
It is good to be cautious when dealing with revelations of angels and prophetic words. But how can you judge another's revelation unless it is something clearly outside the Word of God?
It is good to be cautious about getting caught up in hype and seeking gifts rather then the Giver of the gifts. But shouldn't we rejoice when people are touched and healed and receive Jesus?
I would be too afraid to speak out against God's anointed and too afraid of grieving the Holy Spirit, to speak out against a minister of the Gospel and an apparent move of God without clear evidence of gross error.
Hesed I believe you are a genuine believer in Jesus. I do not question your motives, your zeal your love, your integrity.
Please can we say amen together to this prayer?
Heavenly Father in Jesus name I pray that there would be a genuine moving of your Holy Spirit. That you would poor out your grace and mercy upon a hurting world. Let a true revival take place and let thousands and thousands of precious souls and set free and come to know Jesus as LORD and savior.
LORD God I pray that you would stretch out your hand to heal and that your signs and wonders would take place through the name of your Holy servant Jesus.
I pray that your Holy Spirit of Truth would lead us into all truth. In Jesus name I bind deception and I bind false religion. Let all deception buried in our hearts be exposed and be brought to the light of the Light of the World.
Let all falsehood be purged from me. Let all false religion be purged from me. Let the spirit of this world be purged from me.
Jesus save me!
In Jesus mighty Name amen.
(I pray with tears).
Please check out this New Age and gnostic teaching from Todd on Todd's website.
http://www.freshfire.ca/index.php?Act=read&status=teaching&Id=218 Part 1- I had three different people read both parts of this "teaching" and all three either asked if he(Todd Bentley) was Joseph smith or said he sounds like Joseph Smith. Go Figure! And that's without knowing anything about the man, or the "revival," as they live in Lakeland, and haven't heard either.
http://www.freshfire.ca/index.php?Act=read&status=teaching&Id=219 Part 2 Todd talks to a dead man.
Todd said Paul talked to a dead man to write Hebrews.
Todd says that both PAUL AND ABRAHAM WROTE HEBREWS.
Todd says God's Throneroom is below the man's abode in heaven.
Todd says the angel's domain is above that of God, in the 6th heaven.
Todd says the other planets and maybe universes, other earths, aliens and the like are above all in the 7th heaven. Yep, I exaggerated that one, taking the assumptions to their LOGICAL conclusion. Please forgive me.
Hokey prophetical teachings, and stinking thinkin.
Please, peruse his site and continue to learn about Emma, the angel of prophecy, and the angel of finance, and how Todd stuffs gold coins in his pocket and Todd's god says that Tood is "taking an offering."
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/355021
Todd says God told him believing in Jesus isn't enough. 5 min 30 sec into the video.
Please, don't bore me with your "challenges."
The deceptive nature of this "revival" and the large scope of it are truly alarming. I believe tragedy will strike the world right when everyone is shouting "peace and safety", "revival" etc. Jesus warned us against false prophets, and the test is the Word of God. Why is Scripture not being exposited and the personal extra-scriptural and anti-scriptural revelations of a man being exalted? This is deception at its height.
In Christ - Josef
www.puregospeltruth.com
I understand how you all can feel this way, but if I had not experienced the love of Jesus Christ 12 yrs ago for myself, I would have been speaking just as you all are. I just want you to know that I do not lie when I tell you I have been changed and the love I have for Jesus is so real and it was because of someone like Todd, speaking of God's mighty ability to heal us. I was so healed of my blindness, and I will never be the same. I say this because I just want you to know I was changed and I am so thankful to God for rising up people brave enough to speak it. All I can do is tell you I have been changed, and to please understand that there are a different set of ears and eyes possible when you feel the love of Jesus and things that Todd does by speaking of angels and such will not offend you. I have been changed and all I can do is tell you that if ever you need a disease healed or a heart mended, when you walk into a place such as what Todd is performing, you will become changed, you will see and you will understand. You will be a different person. All I can tell you is I will never ever be the same, and I hope you all will try to love him a little for just trying to heal the wounded at a time that the wounded so desperately are crying. I want our father to be happy with what we do, and when we can bring one of his sons or daughters a healing by our faith and stepping out, all I care about is seeing (and feeling) the joy it brings our father. I just want to make our dad happy and when I think of the work Todd is helping to do with God's strength, I feel we are going forward finally in helping people heal and believe that our father is the truest loving dad of all.
You're comparing Todd to Joseph Smith (the founder of the Mormon church for those who don't know - I had to look that up myself) just because he had a vision of heaven?
Unlike Joseph Smith Todd preaches salvation by faith in Jesus. He hasn't denounced all the churches but his own as false. He's not advocating polygamy or anything of the sort. He is preaching that prophetic dreams and visions are for today and can be accessed by faith in Jesus, just the same as salvation and healing.
Yes Todd's vision of meeting Paul in heaven is definitely "out there". I understand how this would be ringing alarm bells for some people. Especially for those with a negative view of the prophetic. With such things it is very wise to proceed with caution. Every prophetic revelation and experience must be weighed against scripture.
But does this experience contradict scripture?
I do not believe so.
Look at Luke 20:35-37, when Jesus answers the Sadducees about the resurrection of the dead:
Jesus said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage,
but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;
for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
"But that the dead are raised, even Moses showed, in the passage about the burning bush, where he calls the Lord THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB.
"Now He is not the God of the dead but of the living; for all live to Him."
(I've used NAS here what's your preferred translation?)
Speaking with the saints of old in a vision of heaven is NOT the same as contacting the dead. Where else would you expect to see the saints? Besides scripture teaches that the LORD is God of the living and not the dead.
Now Jesus talked to Moses (and Elijah, I'm not counting him because he didn't die but was taken up) on the mount of transfiguration. Was Jesus "contacting" the dead?
The writer of Hebrews speaks of the great cloud of witnesses.
In Revelation John saw the saints who had been martyred for their faith.
So we have a clear scriptural precedent for the possibility of encountering the past saints in a vision of heaven.
I'll move on to 7 levels of heaven part of the vision.
Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Heavens is plural. How many? doesn't say.
2 Corinthians 12:2
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago--whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows--such a man was caught up to the third heaven.
So scripture reveals that there is a third heaven (which means there must be a first and second). But is silent on what whether the third heaven has levels or not.
Is there a third heaven? Yes.
Isaiah saw the throne room. John saw the throne room in Revelation.
Does heaven have a throne room and can believers be caught up and have visions of the third heaven? Yes.
Now does the third heaven have seven levels? Scripture doesn't say. Maybe, maybe not.
Does the third heaven
Todd is recounting a vision as he experienced it. He is not basing any new doctrines on it.
Yes don't receive every vision without question. Weigh everything against scripture. If something doesn't line up with scripture throw it out. If you're not sure about something, or there are elements that cannot be confirmed then put those elements to one side.
If someone giving a vision denies the Lordship of Jesus. That He came in the flesh, died and was raised to life for our salvation then they are a false prophet. This is certainly not the case here.
Maybe you have theological objections to the throne room of God not being on the highest level of heaven. I'm not qualified to comment on such things. I've never been there and scripture does not give every detail of such things. I guess we'll find out for sure when we get there.
About "other planets and maybe universes, other earths"
Hebrews 11:3
By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.
Interesting worlds here is plural...
On the authorship of Hebrews. Many believe the Paul did write it. Others believe that he did not write it because he didn't sign it like his other letters. Do you have any evidence that Paul did not write it?
So how do we judge visions and prophetic experiences? By the fruit.
Now what is the fruit of Todd's experiences in the 10 years of his public ministry?
- Saved and delivered from drug addiction.
- Passionate lover of Jesus.
- Tireless proclaimer of the Gospel.
- Formerly a drug addict and criminal who was an eighth grade dropout, from a small town in nowhere Canada, now heading a world wide ministry.
- World wide ministry that has seen over 1 million public decisions for Christ.
- Rescued hundreds of orphans from being child soldiers in Uganda
- Thousands healed.
- Currently in the middle of a move of God that is seeing thousands touched, healed and come to Jesus.
So how big is your God? Who is greater the devil to deceive, or God to raise up nobodies to become powerful ministers of the Gospel?
Who heals? The devil or God?
Who proclaims Jesus. The devil or the Holy Spirit?
That'll do for now. I'll do another post about the other matters as I look into them.
Blessings in Jesus Name.
Galatians 5 & 6
13-15It is absolutely clear that God has called you to a free life. Just make sure that you don't use this freedom as an excuse to do whatever you want to do and destroy your freedom. Rather, use your freedom to serve one another in love; that's how freedom grows. For everything we know about God's Word is summed up in a single sentence: Love others as you love yourself. That's an act of true freedom. If you bite and ravage each other, watch out—in no time at all you will be annihilating each other, and where will your precious freedom be then?
16-18My counsel is this: Live freely, animated and motivated by God's Spirit. Then you won't feed the compulsions of selfishness. For there is a root of sinful self-interest in us that is at odds with a free spirit, just as the free spirit is incompatible with selfishness. These two ways of life are antithetical, so that you cannot live at times one way and at times another way according to how you feel on any given day. Why don't you choose to be led by the Spirit and so escape the erratic compulsions of a law-dominated existence?
19-21It is obvious what kind of life develops out of trying to get your own way all the time: repetitive, loveless, cheap sex; a stinking accumulation of mental and emotional garbage; frenzied and joyless grabs for happiness; trinket gods; magic-show religion; paranoid loneliness; cutthroat competition; all-consuming-yet-never-satisfied wants; a brutal temper; an impotence to love or be loved; divided homes and divided lives; small-minded and lopsided pursuits; the vicious habit of depersonalizing everyone into a rival; uncontrolled and uncontrollable addictions; ugly parodies of community. I could go on.
This isn't the first time I have warned you, you know. If you use your freedom this way, you will not inherit God's kingdom.
22-23But what happens when we live God's way? He brings gifts into our lives, much the same way that fruit appears in an orchard—things like affection for others, exuberance about life, serenity. We develop a willingness to stick with things, a sense of compassion in the heart, and a conviction that a basic holiness permeates things and people. We find ourselves involved in loyal commitments, not needing to force our way in life, able to marshal and direct our energies wisely.
23-24Legalism is helpless in bringing this about; it only gets in the way. Among those who belong to Christ, everything connected with getting our own way and mindlessly responding to what everyone else calls necessities is killed off for good—crucified.
25-26Since this is the kind of life we have chosen, the life of the Spirit, let us make sure that we do not just hold it as an idea in our heads or a sentiment in our hearts, but work out its implications in every detail of our lives. That means we will not compare ourselves with each other as if one of us were better and another worse. We have far more interesting things to do with our lives. Each of us is an original.
1-3 Live creatively, friends. If someone falls into sin, forgivingly restore him, saving your critical comments for yourself. You might be needing forgiveness before the day's out. Stoop down and reach out to those who are oppressed. Share their burdens, and so complete Christ's law. If you think you are too good for that, you are badly deceived.
4-5Make a careful exploration of who you are and the work you have been given, and then sink yourself into that. Don't be impressed with yourself. Don't compare yourself with others. Each of you must take responsibility for doing the creative best you can with your own life.
6Be very sure now, you who have been trained to a self-sufficient maturity, that you enter into a generous common life with those who have trained you, sharing all the good things that you have and experience.
7-8Don't be misled: No one makes a fool of God. What a person plants, he will harvest. The person who plants selfishness, ignoring the needs of others—ignoring God!—harvests a crop of weeds. All he'll have to show for his life is weeds! But the one who plants in response to God, letting God's Spirit do the growth work in him, harvests a crop of real life, eternal life.
9-10So let's not allow ourselves to get fatigued doing good. At the right time we will harvest a good crop if we don't give up, or quit. Right now, therefore, every time we get the chance, let us work for the benefit of all, starting with the people closest to us in the community of faith.
11-13Now, in these last sentences, I want to emphasize in the bold scrawls of my personal handwriting the immense importance of what I have written to you. These people who are attempting to force the ways of circumcision on you have only one motive: They want an easy way to look good before others, lacking the courage to live by a faith that shares Christ's suffering and death. All their talk about the law is gas. They themselves don't keep the law! And they are highly selective in the laws they do observe. They only want you to be circumcised so they can boast of their success in recruiting you to their side. That is contemptible!
14-16For my part, I am going to boast about nothing but the Cross of our Master, Jesus Christ. Because of that Cross, I have been crucified in relation to the world, set free from the stifling atmosphere of pleasing others and fitting into the little patterns that they dictate. Can't you see the central issue in all this? It is not what you and I do—submit to circumcision, reject circumcision. It is what God is doing, and he is creating something totally new, a free life! All who walk by this standard are the true Israel of God—his chosen people. Peace and mercy on them!
17Quite frankly, I don't want to be bothered anymore by these disputes. I have far more important things to do—the serious living of this faith. I bear in my body scars from my service to Jesus.
Derek,
The Gifts of the Holy Spirit are absolutely for today. Even as an unbelieving believer that you profess you are, ask yourself, if people don't need the power and gifts of the Holy Spirit in these days, when would be a good time for the power of the Holy Spirit to move on this earth? The Holy Spirit isn't dead. What you are believing are doctrines of man. Reject that cessationalist lie of the devil and ask the Holy Spirit to show you what is true. I am not speaking about the ministry that launched this topic, I do not know the man nor his ministry, but I am very familiar with the ministry of the Holy Spirit. I am alive today because of the healing power of Christ. But I will tell you this, if you do not believe, you will not see. If you are seeking the truth from the Holy Spirit, do you think he is going to allow you to follow devils? Don't be of such little faith. If you are seeking the Lord, HIM shall you find. Ask, Seek, Knock. We are not to chase after signs and wonders, signs and wonders are to chase after us. As it is written, signs and wonders follow who? Them who BELIEVE.
There is every reason to have faith to believe as written in the Word of God, there is NO REASON to believe cessationalists, but if you do, you may never be used by the Holy Spirit to minister healing or much of anything else, to a needy world, that I can tell you without a doubt. Don't take my word for anything I said. Test what I said with the Word of God and SEEK HIM to lead you in what is true.
God bless!
Bless you FriendOfJesus.
I think you have mixed up who has posted what comment.
I agree with everything you posted so bless you.
I believe that the gifts of the Spirit are for today. I'm a Spirit filled on fire believer, who is hungry for more of God.
I have the highest respect for Todd Bentley and praise God for what He (God) is doing in Florida.
I am however deeply grieved and disturbed by the many accusations that are flying around blogs like this. What's worse they seem to be coming not so much from those who believe the cessationalist doctrine but manly from other Spirit filled believers.
When will we, the body of Christ stop tearing ourselves to pieces like this? When will we stop attacking fellow believers (for whom Christ died) just because they display a different expression of God's glory than us?
Derek, you just don't get it.
I understand your opposition to anyone saying anything that might step on your ricepaper, this revival where I live.
Surely, false teachers/evangelists do have some fruit.
I have a child who was genuinely saved in a Rodney Howard Browne meeting, and still is today, as an adult. Does that mean I think that what Rodney does, manipulating the audience as a great speaker, using the Word of God as his tool, is alright. No.
But where the Word of God is preached, lives are changed and people are delivered.
That is absent here, and is replaced with hungry Christians needing to read their Word, and seek the Lord, not a touch, an anointing, from Todd, or feel they have to come to Lakeland to have revival in their towns.
Historically, real revivals, and this is not one, started with prayer. Notice there isn't any mention of people having prayed for this in Lakeland, it just happened.
Historically, real revivals, and this is not one, gripped the community. This has not happened in Lakeland. The only growth is from the "god" seekers, looking for a sign/miracle and looking to "feel" the presence of God, coming to Lakeland.
Do we have to work it up, or should we walk in it?
And if we're not walking in it, is it not the Word of God that brings conviction, repentance, and the anointing for the heart that's right with God and truly hungry?
This is hype. Now people are coming who are truly hungry, and stuff is happening. God does work that way.
But it's not because of a former homosexual child molestor getting saved, embracing the prophetic ministries and finding a niche, perfecting his skills at cold readings over the years, donning a new hairstyle and radical "look," trying to headbutt and knee in the stomach to stimulate the anointing, who can barely keep his Christian patter together long enough to call it a message, comes to a church that does not have a good reputation in the city, and revival happens.
Now the vultures are circling, hoping for a piece of the "anointing" gold, by being associated with the Lakeland "hype."
Please, consider the obvious.
Way over 1 million decisions for Christ. DOCUMENTED healings of cancer gone, blind eyes opened, deaf ears hearing, limbs restored, etc. Lets see, do I sit around and judge God working through one of His less than perfect children, or do I shut up and pray? It's okay, I understand your need to kill the work of God like others with the same religious spirit who picked apart Jesus for healing on the wrong day, and rubbing spit in someone's eye. You stay here and destroy people, I'm out the door to be the hand of God extended to a lost and dying world.
thank you for sharing this, brother. I had no idea who todd bentley was...it was only yesterday that I heard some christians talking about him.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7916114014802700034
That video will shock you if you still think
Bentley is of God whatsoever. Bentley in it
claims Jesus actually came (from heaven where
the Bible says He is now) “tangibly in the natural”
into Bentley’s bedroom where Bentley then said Jesus
actually “sat on” Bentley’s bed and the bed
even “creeked” as Jesus sat down on it.
Bentley then claims Jesus
then proceeeded to touch Bentley over
his eyes and Bentley said Jesus “smelled like
vanilla”.
Bentley also claims the Lord Himself also said
this exact phrase to Bentley:
“you are pure in heart, there is nothing in
your heart that is not pure, you totally love me”
Think I am lying don’t you, go watch
and be shocked at the utter madness
that comes out of this heretic’s mouth.
Then just imagine in your mind the fact
that God still allows us to give into deceivers
if we so choose to depart from the sound
doctrines of the Bible.
There is no new gospel we are to go after and no new Bible we are to acccept.
The faith of the TRUE Jesus Christ through
the Bible as given to the apostles
is the same today as it always has been
the last 2000 years, those preaching other
gospels are “to be accursed”.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we (ie the apostles) have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now AGAIN, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
This is one of the only times I know of in the entire Bible that a saying is repeated a second time directly after it has just been said, obviously to imply how serious a statement of warning it is.
"DOCUMENTED healings of cancer gone, blind eyes opened, deaf ears hearing, limbs restored, etc."
LIAR. YOU ARE SO EASY TO SEDUCE.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Oh there is more examples posted above I see from people using new age pagan bible translations which tickle their ears and feed their heretical lusts. If you can't find what you want to believe and do in the TRUE bible, well hey its easy JUST CREATE ANOTHER BIBLE TRANSLATION THAT DOES have what you want in it, just like you have done.
I have watched the revival on the web and am now a moderator in one of the chat rooms.
After 15 days, of participating, TWICE per day, I can tell you that I am now in the Kingdom of God. I wake up in the Glory of Jesus every day since last Thursday. My mind has been cleared of all past traumas including the ancient ones from before the creation (the fall). And much much more.
I can only tell u what I did. I found out about it two saturdays ago and by the second day, I placed my destiny in God under the mantle of this MOVE OF GOD, and since then, I have reaped all the benefits of this Glory Of Jesus which comes to meet us at each meeting and is also present in cyberspace in the chat room.
This Glory of JEsus is now IN ME, always. I woke up sunday morning in the Glory.
Friday, I did more things throughout my day, errands, cleaning, laundry, cooking, TWO meetings for the revival, and at midnight, I said WOW what a day. not tired. enjoyed it all. I have joy, peace of mind.
this is MY personal testimony to you all.
This revival is a move of our God.
I love u all, see u in the chat.
Learn How to Become a False Prophet Performing False Miracles! Learn the Secrets of TODD BENTLEY`S *Operation Money Suck* Today!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=p9Kv7XRaKw8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6O0p4ZDnDoQ
http://youtube.com/watch?v=gZ-7beRITYM&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=aHIyFmJTRsM&feature=related
Rom 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
2Cr 11:13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness
SAY FRIEND!.. FIRST LET ME SAY.. "THAT YOU WOULDN'T KNOW THE HOLY SPIRIT..IF IT CAME WALKING UP TO YOU WITH A PAIR OF RED PAJAMAS ON!"
I WON'T WASTE TIME ..ARUGING ABOUT
YOUR TAKE ON THIS CRUSADE AND WHAT IS OR ISN'T HAPPING FOR LAKELAND!
I WILL SUGGEST THAT YOU SHUT OFF YOUR COMPUTER, TV, FAX, AND TELEPHONE, GET IN YOUR CAR..AND FIND THE HIGHEST MT. YOU CAN CLIMB.. AND FALL ON YOUR FACE BEFORE GOD! LAY ALL YOU YOUR BEIEFS, DOCTRINES, RELIGIOUS STUFF
ON THE ALTER OF GOD.. AND DON'T PICK UP, EXCEPT WHAT GOD GIVES TO YOU BY REVELATION AND THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.. AND WHEN YOU HAVE HAD A PERSONAL .. SUPERNATURAL VISITATION FROM GOD, A DYING OF YOURSELF..AND A RESURATION OF CHRIST, UNTIL YOUR WILLING TO TAKE THE GOSPEL TO THE NATIONS, INSTEAD OF TRYING TO JUDGE OTHER MEN OF GOD!
HOW MANY DID YOU LEED TO CHRIST TODAY? HOW MANY DID YOU PRAY FOR A MIRACLE OF HEALING? WHAT HAVE YOU DONE THAT MAKES LAKELAND A BETTER CITY FOR GOD?
SOMETHING TO PRAY ABOUT!
-BUFORD DOWELL
INTERNATIONAL MISSIONARY EVANG.,
FOR 55 YRS..AND STILL GROWING IN
GOD!
All I see here is a bunch of legalists condeming a man of GOD.
Really....is that what you feel your "calling" is from the LORD.
I am praying for you that you will see the truth before it is too late yourself. Do you think that mabye it is possible that the "many" who say "LORD, LORD did we not prophesy in your name..." could be someone like you. The ones who are legalists who think they are better and that their way was the only way. You exclude yourselves from others because they don't do things like you.Yet you give no proof to back up your accusations. It is pitiful that you say he is a false prophet because people are being healed....also funny that the pharisees did this same thing to JESUS in the book of Matthew in which they said when HE healed people that he was of the devil.Take a look at JESUS' words to them. In fact maybe you are a false prophet yourself.
Funny how that Todd Bentley gives the glory to JESUS in every service...yet you still claim he is glorifying himself. In fact, last night was the FIRST TIME he even asked for any money for the service from anyone watching on t.v.....and this revival has been going on for almost 40 days....and all he asked for was for them to donate where GOD told them to....in fact he never even mentioned an amount like I have heard from many other pastors.
I am sorry you have a problem with Todd seeing an angel....obviously you forget that JESUS is the same yesterday, today, and forever....and that people have seen angels in the New Testament also. For example Paul. Yet the Bible says that GOD is no respecter of persons....which means HE can have an angel visit anyone, anywhere, and at anytime HE so wishes. Never once did this encounter with the angel point away from the Gospel or salvation and Majesty of JESUS.
Don't you think if todd was not of GOD that he would lead people astray by saying "you know everything is O.K. All you are good people"...blah, blah, blah and that he would glorify himself....but even when he talks about the visit from an angel he still gives JESUS the glory. IN fact in EVERY service he gives JESUS the glory....and he publically stated last night he was no better than anyone else...and that the "BLOOD OF JESUS" is what saves him. He also lets backsliders no they are on their way to hell and the unsaved....and he has given an altar call every night that i have watched in these past 2 weeks.
Don't you see your are acting like a "heresy hunter".Obviously those types of people actually think their "good works" will save them and then they constantly criticize a move of GOD because it didn't start with them. These are the people who will hear JESUS say "depart from me" because they never really had the love of GOD in them to begin with....in the end their fruit shows exactly what they are....wolves who constantly spent their whole lives devouring others with their slanderous accusations and words. They never knew HIM to begin with. I hope that is not the case with you.
PLEASE HELP!!!
I'M VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THIS TODD BENTLEY & SO CALLED FLORIDA REVIVAL , EVEN MORE THAN THE TORONTO BLESSING.......We are seeing the bad fruit of the "Toronto Blessing" in New Zealand at present. My brother in law's marriage broke up just after his heavy involvement in that thing. He went loopy and lost all reason. The devastation in his life and children and ex wife has been very, very painful for our family.... I really can't begin to tell you how much.... my poor nephews and niece. It has broken our hearts. I've seen other casualties and it has grieved me so much.
We can hardly go to a church in our little town anymore where we are aren't seeing these bizarre manifestations. And if you question the leadership or church members about it(in love, I will add)you are labelled as "devisive", "rebellious", "religious" etc. All sorts of "whip words" to bring you into conformity. It really is cult like you know and a form of "spiritual abuse". Their behaviour is far from Christian.
The Lord said to us "Come out from among her and be ye separate....and touch not the unclean thing." So my husband and I have stayed away from church for a long time now. We got some excellent Christian counselling which literally changed our lives.
I've seen some of my Christian friends become people I hardly know anymore..... they have left sound doctrine and there is now such alot of confusuion and strife in their lives that just wasn't there before.... very bad fruit. They have also become unteachable...it's not looking good folks.
Before it was Toronto and now it's Todd Bentley.... not Jesus, I might add. My best friend is planning to go to Lakeland and she talks a strange unscriptual language now. She use to love Jesus so much. I want my sister in the Lord back, in her sane mind. I'm at present getting all the info I can about Toronto and Bentley and emailing it to her and warning her.
And now she has stopped answering my emails.
Just recently, after many years, we decided to go back to Church and a Church fellowship which we thought was a safe one. Well, far from it!!!
We are now seeing signs of this Todd Bentley angel move in our town and church... we don't want this demonic move in New Zealand....please don't bring anymore of it here.....WE NEED A TRUE REVIVAL, ONE OF REPENTANCE AND HUMILITY....WHERE THE FRUIT IS TRUE REVERENCE AND HOLINESS...WHERE THE WIDOWS AND ORPHANS AND THE POOR ARE TAKEN CARE OF. WE HAVE MUCH TO REPENT OF IN THIS COUNTRY AS YOU WELL KNOW.
One member in our church prayed for my son in a most bizarre way and my son became very afraid, and strange things happened to him, then he became so rebellious. We have never seen this behaviour before in him....He is fine now. We have repented of letting this man pray for him and have bound the demons at work. Praise God, we have our son back.... Dear God.....this thing is so evil. When my husband told our pastors what was going on and also questioned their tolerance, we were made so unwelcome and they began to slander and gossip and pray us out of the church. Exactly what happened when we refused to partake in the Toronto Blessing in the early nineties. We have now had to leave the Church, it is so unsafe.
WE ARE SO LONGING TO HAVE TRUE FELLOWSHIP. AND WE JUST WANT TO GO TO CHURCH AND WORSHIP JESUS IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH, AND SERVE HIM. WE HAVE SO WANTED TO BRING OUR CHILDREN UP IN A SAFE CHURCH. WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DO THIS. WE ARE UNWELCOME IN MOST CHURCHES NOW.
You know, my husband and I just love the Lord so much. And we just so love God's family and especially those whom we have lost to this doctrine of demons. We really miss true fellowship. And we also have a deep intercessory burden for the church and for our country...even though we have been out of church all these years we have never stopped repenting or praying for the backslidden church.
Yet in our town, amongst the Toronto/ Bentley/Jezebel crew we are despised and hated and we are treated with such scorn and suspicion. We are treated as the off scouring of the earth as Paul would say. And yet we have so loved the church and my husband has such a father's heart. Even the traditional churches are now affected by it. The Catholic church seems to be the sanest of them all!!
I'm weeping as I type this. Weeping for my family, for myself, for my brothers and sisters and weeping for my country. It's been a long, hard and lonely journey. My husband and I long for truth and the sound of the turtle dove once again in our nation. But I fear God will only bring judgement to us, we are so deserving of it, for our perpetual backsliding,our spiritual adultery and idolatry. God have mercy on us. It is a time to fast, weep and pray.
This truly is the "great falling away" that has been prophesied.
The foundation of these Toronto and Bentley conversions are on sinking sand. That really concerns me. And while the world is perishing and Jesus's return is eminent, these Christians, followers of fallen angels and lying signs and wonders are getting drunk.....they will be found in a drunken stupour when Jesus returns. ....and oh what shame!!! Beware lest I find you naked in that day and without your garments.....just as Noah was found by his sons, drunk and naked.....and oh what a terrible shame. He said it would be just as the days of Noah. God's first judgement was flooding by water, and his last judgement is by fire.
THIS IS THE FIRE BY WHICH THEY ARE JUDGED BECAUSE THEY REFUSE TO JUDGE THEMSELVES.
NEW ZEALANDERS, PLEASE CRY OUT TO GOD FOR HIS MERCY. OH GOD, SEARCH US, TRY US AND SEE IF THERE BE ANY WICKED WAY IN US. WE WANT YOUR TRUTH AGAIN IN OUR LAND NO MATTER HOW PAINFUL OR WHAT THE COST IS. JESUS, PLEASE CONVICT US OF SIN RIGHTEOUSNESS AND JUDGEMENT.
WE NEED YOUR WORD AGAIN IN THIS LAND. THERE IS SUCH A DEARTH FOR YOUR WORD OH GOD. IS THERE NONE IN THIS LAND THAT WILL STAND UP AND PREACH THE TRUE GOSPEL. IS THERE NONE THAT WILL STAND IN THE GAP. ARE ALL GREEDY FOR GAIN, LOVER'S OF SELF AND HATERS OF TRUTH. WHERE, OH WHERE ARE THE MEN OF GOD!!!! HAVE ALL BEEN BEWITCHED BY JEZEBEL. WHY DO THEY BELIEVE THE LYING PROPHETS....
......IS THERE NONE THAT DESIRE TRUTH IN THE INWARD PARTS.
WHERE ARE THOSE WITH BROKEN AND CONTRITE HEARYS? ARE THEIR NONE THAT HEAR GOD? WHERE ARE THOSE THAT HEAR WHAT THE SPIRIT IS SAYING? WHERE ARE THOSE THAT KNOW THE FATHER'S HEART? WHERE ARE THOSE THAT CARE FOR THE WIDOW AND ORPHANS.....WHERE ARE THE TRUE SHEPHERDS THAT WILL LAY DOWN THEIR LIVES FOR THE SHEEP?.....FATHER I'M SO SORRY WE HAVE STRAYED SO FAR FROM YOU. WE ARE A DISOBEDIENT AND REBELLIOUS PEOPLE...WE HAVE EARS TO HEAR BUT DO NOT HEAR, WE HAVE EYES TO SEE BUT DO NOT SEE.....I'M WEARIED, SO WEARIED WITH CRYING OUT TO YOU NIGHT AND DAY.....WHY DO YOU DELAY.....PLEASE COME LORD JESUS, PLEASE COME....HAVE MERCY ON US, OH GOD, HAVE MERCY, PLEASE HAVE MERCY.....
I have not seen this Lakeland revival or heard Todd Bentley speak, yet in reading this blog it is apparent to me that alot of you need either salvation or a true touch from God! If you don't feel like something is right take it to the Lord. If a couple of hundred souls truly get touched or saved from this; than it's worth it. Pray for Todd... God knows what He is doing.
My dear, DON'T BE DECEIVED. TAKE THIS FROM ONE WHOSE BEEN THERE.....these aren't true conversions, people are not getting saved. This is addictive emotionalism accommodated by demons. I've seen so much of this before. True salvation is seen by a life time of repentance. If you aren't daily grieved over your sin and turning from it then you aren't saved, If you don't have a relationship with sin then you don't have a relationship with God.
The great commisssion is to "Go ye into all the world and make disciples of all men" Todd Bentley is not making disciples...HE'S MAKING FOLLOWERS. Examples of true leadership today are David Wilkerson & Paul Washer.
I walk in daily communion with God. I don't need to go to Lakeland to get a so called "quick fix" "touch". I don't need to get "drunk" in the spirit. If I wanted to do that I would just go down to the nearest liquor store and buy myself a bottle of whiskey and say "more Lord, more Lord" "More whiskey Lord, more whiskey Lord" I've repented and turned away from that hedonistic self indulgent lifestyle. I've turned away from all that, not to find it in the church thanks.
I don't have fellowship with angels, I have fellowship with God. I don't need to look to a man to experience God's presence. I'm experiencing His presence daily and conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment every moment of the day because I've learn't to abide in the vine, I've learn't to put away the old life and crucify the deeds of the flesh. I've also learn't to guard that place of abiding. THAT IS TRUE REVIVAL. I'M IN IT NOW AND THAT'S WHY I CAN RECOGNISE THE FALSE.
I too have come out of addiction, 24 years ago. I've lived on the streets. I've been homeless, suicidal etc, I'm telling you I've walked the walk as a sinner and I'm walking the walk as a sinner saved by grace now, my life has been totally transformed and restored and I tell you it was no easy feat and it wasn't done overnight, it's been tough learning to go through short term pain for long term gain. Us addicts are addicted to the "quick fix" and "instant gratification", we are always looking for instant answers, that's how I know Todd isn't yet healed from his past because he's still living in the addictive personality,he has an unhealed mind. It takes one to know one, and that's why ... I KNOW A FAKE WHEN I SEE ONE AND TODD BENTLEY IS A FAKE....HE IS DECEIVED, SINCERELY DECEIVED. HE THINKS HE'S ON TRACK BUT THE POOR GUY ISN'T.
I just can't believe people can be so gullible.
HE IS NOT FULFILLING THE GREAT COMMISSION AND MAKING DISCIPLES BUT HE IS MAKING FOLLOWERS.
HE IS LIFTED UP IN PRIDE, DESPITE HIS WORDS SAYING OTHERWISE.
HIS FRUIT WILL NOT LAST, THESE CONVERSIONS WILL NOT BE ABLE TO STAND THE PRESSURES OF THIS WICKED WORLD.
THIS IS ANOTHER GREAT DECEPTION LIKE TORONTO AND PENSACOLA.
I PRAISE GOD THAT MANY ARE RESISTING IT AND ARE HOLDING FAST TO THE TRUTH.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we (ie the apostles) have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now AGAIN, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
GOD INSTRUCTS US TO RENEW OUR MINDS NOT REMOVE OUR MINDS.
AND WHAT IS IT IN YOU THAT WANTS TO INDULGE THIS SICKNESS IN THE CHURCH ANYWAY?
AND WHY IS IT THAT SOME PEOPLE CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH AND OTHERS CAN'T? WHAT RESOURCE DOES ONE GROUP HAVE THAT THE OTHER DOESN'T?
WHAT IS IT IN YOU "LAKELAND REVIVAL" PEOPLE THAT WANTS TO FOLLOW AFTER LYING SIGNS AND WONDERS AND WANTS EMOTIONAL HIGHS?
ARE YOU CHILDREN OF THE LIGHT OR CHILDREN OF DARKNESS?
Maria,
First of all I am very sorry for the divorce in your family and the subsequent hardship your family is experiencing. However, to draw a direct link to a spiritual experience is a stretch. There are many factors that go into divorces, and the Toronto experience may have been one of them, but that is not all. People are usually the problem, not a spiritual quests. The spiritual antics from that movement may exacerbate the problems, but it typically doesn't cause them.
I have found that there are those who are spiritually unsound in every movement, even in the classical and traditional church systems. Every move of God since Luther have had its share of kooks and extreme doctrines. They all came into line after a period of time. God always heals His church and brings its teachings into balance. Every move has had its extremes, starting with Luther. But what God wants His church to take from a move will always remain.
Secondly, there is what I call an experiential truth: People who want to be deceived are deceived. In other words, people who are hungry for God and truth will embrace the truth when it comes to light. I have talked with many who were embracing false doctrines who when confronted with the truth would admit that it was right but did not want to embrace it. Conversely, I have talked with people bound in cultish doctrines that when they were confronted with the truth, because they were seekers, they embraced it. I know there are deeper issues for those who have been programmed, but the roots of the deception is still there. I believe the scriptures bear that out in Rom 1:18-32. When you read it you see the downward spiral of people who deny the truth of God that has already been shown to them.
As far as you friend speaking a "strange unscriptural language," it sound as though you have a problem with the doctrine of speaking in other tongues. While tongues may be hard to swallow from certain traditions it is not considered to be a break from the orthodoxy of our faith. I was taught in Bible college that people who spoke with tongues had a demon or a psychological problem. Neither position holds up to the scrutiny of scriptures. In fact, the defense of the doctrine of speaking in other tongues is more scriptural than the arguments that were taught to me against their practice. In fact, in that college, it was okay to believe in tongues, but not okay to practice it.
Finally as far as the confusion that everyone seems to have but you... perhaps you should reconsider that perspective. That means that only you are right and every church in your city is wrong, along with any Bible college/seminary trained leaders. Wow, I hope that I can somehow attain to that level of revelational attainment so that I too can be that right.
Honestly, it sound like you are having trouble fitting God into your box of doctrine. We should all be seekers all of our lives, seeking to know Him more and experience Him more. When we close something off, we cease to be seekers. I believer there is more danger in that for deception, than in the temporary insanity of a movement.
Finally, the "Toronto/Bentley/Jezebel crew." First of all I do not run after these outpourings. I never went to Toronto, although I had friends who did. I just don't tend to follow the crowd, but I do watch these things with interest, and I tend to see them over the long haul. But the word Jezebel...
Jezebel, who hated the prophets, as the scriptures say. I think that is a real misuse of the word. If the scriptures say that she hated the prophets, then if we want to identify a Jezebel spirit, we have to look at the activity that she is attributed to. So, Jezebel would be an anti-prophetic spirit, and I think we seen that demonstrated in this blog.
By the way, my perspective is that God brings judgement to a nation because of sin in the church. While you may not like their antics, their attitudes and people skills may be poor, the doctrines may even be flaky. Paul declared that it is required of a steward to be found faithful... not "right" about everything. There may be allot of problems but God will judge the nation because the church has allowed sin and truly false doctrines to replace true Christology. The blood of Jesus, His Lordship, His divinity and humanity, His sacrifice and ultimate resurrection are requirements that are foundational. Other than that, unless they are openly sinning, I don't see where judgement will come.
But please continue to pray, your prayers may actually be fueling the current climate in New Zealand!!
LadyNada, above, is lying to everyone. You can check it out for yourself.
There is a page on Ustream.tv called the upper chat room, a channel/group created by a user.
When you make a ustream broadcaster page, like the upper chat room, you automatically have a chat room added to your free page.
She’s a moderator on that page, created by the “revival’ groupies.
She is not a moderator for Ignited Church or Fresh Fire Ministries, and is not connected with the revival herself, just by internet and having visited herself.
It just goes to show how far these people will go to keep the truth from stepping on their rice paper “revival.”
Please, don’t believe me. Check it out for yourself, to see if these things are so.
Ignited Church page with Ignited Church moderators : http://www.ustream.tv/channel/great-florida-healin ...
The Upper Chat Room, user created : http://www.ustream.tv/channel/the-upper-chat-room
BTW, she has spammed the same message as her post about being a moderator for this revival, as if that brings any credibility to her posts, on many, many, blogs about this false revival.
It's all about Todd and his angel.
We must not step on their rice paper revival.
HEY! Back off Hesed!
What ladynada said was:
"I have watched the revival on the web and am now a moderator in one of the chat rooms."
She said one of the chat rooms - She never claimed to be affiliated with anyone.
Just CALM down and stop throwing these accutations of lying around.
You leave this precious saint alone.
Hi Hesed,
Maria here. I agree. I suspect there is something wrong with this blog. Even though I don't understand the technical side of what you have said, I've noticed that some excellent comments have been deleted eg. Andrew Strom from New Zealand.... who has been questioning and confronting Todd Bentley's revival.????
Is it true, ladynada, have you been misleading this blog and presenting yourself to be of another perspective. What are your opinions of Lakeland and Todd Bentley? Can you please come out into the open as I don't believe I've heard from you yet.
Does He not commend us to walk in the light as He is in the light?
Mmmmmm?
Maria.
Hello Ladynada,
Why has the previous comment of mine been instantly posted and yet my other two earlier ones which I think are very good and revealing not posted? What are you afraid of Ladynada?
I don't understand your type of censoring. What is going on here? And also I've had another posting deleted. They have all been in keeping with this blog......also there is an arrangement of the comments that is manipulative and I suspect deceitful. Is this the fruit of your recent conversion Ladynada to this revival? Whooaaa that was quick!!!
I recognise these behaviours as "cult-like behaviour" Ladynada.
Why would you want to do that? Have you got something to hide? Why are you not bringing things out into the open and why are you misleading people?
I think you need to ask yourself some serious questions.
Can you please post my comments. I'm hoping they will help people, they may even help you if you seriously have a love for truth.
Maria.
Here is another attempt to post my previous comments, luckily I saved them in microsoft word....let's hope.
Good Morning Pef,
Thankyou for your comments,some are thoughtful and many show insight. However, I have a hunch that some of what you have said may be saying more about you than it is me.
And yes, true, marriage crisis is never simple or attributed to one factor. Perhaps I should have given more explanation.
There are several factors involved in these cult like moves. What is obvious is that these cult like moves attract very vulnerable people, people's whose lives are filled with pain. My brother in law and friend fit this category.
And yes their marriage was already in a crisis, of course marriage problems are complex. That is why he was attracted to this move in the first place, he was desperate and they offered him the hope of a "quick fix" a "simple solution". During this time he wouldn't take sound advice to get marriage counselling because he genuinely believed (sincerely deceived) that this move of God had the answers to all his life's problems, after all this is what they promised. This sound advice by the way didn't just come from us (we aren't the only ones as you implied) but many others......by the time he finally left the group his marriage was over and his life was in a wreck, children too. He eventually humbled himself and got counselling which has helped. But he now still has to live with the consequences of those 3 years of mania....yes he is forgiven but he has to live with the emotional damage incurred upon his children and the loss of a woman he later discovered he really did love but just didn't know how to love. Marriage counselling has helped many marriages and actually saved quite a few. Many of us, myself included, have had to go through much pain in life before we really get love for truth. But it is very sad indeed when you wake up 3 years later, 10 years later, 15 years later to finally see you have wasted those years of your life in a delusion, or a "make believe" world and damaged other's lives along the way. Thank God for His amazing grace.
Another thing about these cults is that if you point out a problem, you are perceived as the problem.
Look out if you confront them, no matter how lovingly or sincerely. They often have "victim mindsets".
Another characteristic is that the leadership are often insecure men or women who have some area in their lives that needs healing, and they have only applied a bandage. There is often a festering wound underneath. These type of leaders are often just not open to correction. Which is the very thing they need. They usually only surround themselves with like minded "yes" people so they are never truly challenged and are therefore never really accountable.....extremely dangerous!!! That is why they often end up going to such extremes. There is no one to reign them in and if you try you are whipped into conformity.
Here's another trait. There is often a certain personality type that is attracted to Toronto, Pensacola,Todd Bentley, clairvoyances, psychics, prophetic type moves etc.(I'm not against the true prophetic, just the false)and also I do speak in tongues (funnny how presumptious us humans can be). Well what I have noticed about these sad people is they have often lost the confidence to make their own decisions and believe the Christian walk is a tight rope. They want someone to make the decisions for them. Perhaps then if things go wrong they don't need to take responsibility...."they can say, he told me to do this". They are often afraid of making wrong choices, usually there is some historic trauma involved. Many never individuated as teenagers, lack negotiation skills and don't understand the true nature of power or trust. Many have addictive, obsessive, compulsive type personalities, just can't go through the short term pain, just don't have a neurological reverse. Simply put, Mum and dad just didn't have it together and they are deemed to go on perpetuating generations of pain....until the pain gets so bad that they humble themselves,get help and receive God's grace. He does resist the proud you know. I'm talking from experience here.
Also,we aren't the only ones in this little town that are perceived as the problem for pointing out the problem, there are others and in New Zealand itself there are actually thousands. In this town, us who have found it difficult to find a church with responsible leadership could get together and form a house group or something similar but that's not the answer is it? That is reactionary and unbiblical. You know, this has really built patience and humility in us. I think that is why my husband and I can now talk with such confidence and boldness. Which, sadly, is often perceived as arrogance. But really I'm pretty broken inside. I love God deeply. He who has been forgiven much, loves much. I like to think of myself in that category, whether that is true or not I think only God and those close to me can truly be the judge of that. It's easy to put up a front isn't it? Every man and woman's work is tested, and by fire I might add. Perhaps this is our fire.
We have chosen to withdraw temporarily until this madness passes. Because in my experience, these cult like moves which are usually a mixture. (and I know the difference because I've been in a true revival, I think I may be in my own personal one now), they either implode or eventually new leadership rises up in the ranks and brings a balance and restores the church back to sound doctrine & biblical truth...I suppose that would be called reformation.
The fact remains that in the mean time many people, my brother in law included, leave wounded, disillusioned and often angry. There is often a wake of destuction. Yet, ownership is required here if there be any personal or church restoration....The question needs to be asked "What was it in me anyway that gave myself over to this delusion" "What do I need to understand or do to ensure I never repeat this again"
And the fact remains there is a judgement day...we all have to give an account to God.
Best we judge ourselves now and daily. I've come to see the unexamined life is the crazy life. Hence the current crazy spiritual climate. We would rather keep the peace at any price. And oh what a price my country is paying now!!!
Hence my cry for true revival, true reformation. And Oh Lord, let it start with me and my house, Search my heart and examine me, see if there be any wicked way in me.
I think our psychology often determiines our theology. I think the church seems to have neglected the renewal of the mind....another biblical truth that needs to be restored....let's get our minds renewed folks...it's the best safeguard I know. He hasn't asked us for the removal of our minds but the renewal of our minds.
As painful as it has been and still is, my husband & I, along with others have decided to withdraw until we see a spiritually, psychologically, doctrinally and biblically safe church in our little town. Which is by the way one of the most dysfunctional towns in New Zealand, hence the spiritual climate here. We have also made the choice, by God's grace, not to pay back evil for evil. That is slander for slander, no matter how much it has hurt us. I have noticed that one of the major bad fruits from this Toronto thing is a lot of back stabbing and slander which interestingly is a Queen Jezebel personality trait. Yes, we do forgive them...trust them, certainly not!!! Pray for them, yes, as the Holy Spirit leads. I may be wrong, but I think we are more effective outside the church at this present time. Especially in the area of prayer. And praise God, He has been kind to us and given us many opportunities to share the gospel and take care of the poor.
We are not looking for a perfect church but we do believe that mature leadership is a must. This is what is really lacking in our town and country, hence no revival. I don't need a perfect church, or perfect brothers and sisters, I have a perfect God, and that's enough for me. My prayer burden for 24 years now has been "God raise up true shepherds and leaders in this nation" It is my belief, rightly or wrongly that as that happens we will see true transformation, restoration and reformation. I believe God is answering my heart's cry, and again I would make it clear, I'm not the only one in this nation with this cry, there are many. And I can tell you, it truly is a heart's cry. I love God deeply and long to see Him worshipped in Spirit and in Truth. To see the church restored back to her former beauty with sound biblical truth. With the five fold ministry and all the gifts operant and the widows (solo mums), the fatherless and the poor taken care of. With true shepherds that will not fleece the flock but will lay down their lives for the sheep.
And with young men & women, old men & women with hearts burning for the salvation of souls.
Dear Jesus, have mercy on us, please have mercy on us. We are a backslidden nation. What will it take for us to wake up.
I hope this is of help to some readers. Especially those who are thinking about partaking in the feast at Lakeland. And those who are in the Toronto Blessing type churches, who are asking themselves... "There is something wrong here, something doesn't measure up." Listen to that quiet voice within, it's likely to be the Holy Spirit. Get your bible's out and examine what's being preached with the scriptures. Get critically minded, it really is okay...you aren't being devisive or religious to do so, you aren't being proud or arrogant, rebellious or uncommitted, you aren't coming against the Holy Spirit, you aren't being a Jezebel (the latest whip word) And most of all, you aren't THE ONLY ONE!!.....many are now humbling themselves and seeing the delusion and putting their lives back together as painful as it is....
YOU ARE BEING WISE!!! YOU ARE BEING A CHRISTIAN!!!!
God Bless you.
If you are looking for a good Christain counsellor I would suggest going to:
www.livingwisdom.co.nz
Hello again Pef,
Further examination of what you have said...yes it's good, there is much truth there. And theologically sound. And thankyou for your condolence, I do appreciate it.
I hope I don't still have a need to be right.(that may well be a blind spot and I will examine this). I have been wrong so many times in my life that I've got use to it. I'm sure I will be wrong many times again. But this time around, I hope more careful & wise without being closed off or bigoted. I am indeed open to God and his outpourings and I am now a true seeker even if I wasn't always.
When this Toronto thing came here to our country, I wasn't closed off to it. I actually was open and towards all my friends involved, but past personal, religiously delusional experiences told me not to go in boots and all but to wait and see the fruit....of which, I admit, there is a mixture. As I held that gentle and undecided stance I got some whippings as did many others...."you'll miss out on what God is doing. You won't receive the blessing. You are being religious."
The truth was I was already pretty blessed and fulfilled in my Christian walk. I was experiencing absolutely beautiful and cleansing times in God's presence.
However, I love my Christian friends, my brothers and sisters. I felt the need to confront and correct gently and that I did. That's when the heat came on.
There are those who I think have had the privilege of generations of a balanced and well nurtured upbringing with loving Christian parents.(I use to so envy them) These often become seekers of truth themselves, this is their wonderful and beautiful heritage, truth itself and then there are those, like myself who have not had that wonderful privilege but quite the opposite. Instead, have needed to go through a lot of pain in life in order to get that love for truth and become a true seeker of truth. I think only God knows the necessary pain required for that transition. Also people like us are very susceptible to deception and need a life of self examination balanced with grace. We need to keep short accounts and always be accountable to others. I think that is why my husband and I have had such a strong search for mature leadership and true pastors. And we have also had the wonderful privilege of knowing some of these men. They are all with the Lord now.
It is well known, hurting people hurt other people.
True rivalists are not hurting people, they are healed people. I'm not saying they haven't had their fair share of life's pain, none of us are immune to that. But they are healed people, they are trustworthy men of God. They are men who have loaned all their power to God and men whom God can trust with His power, at least for a season. In the revival or renewal, I think it was both I was in, there was deception running parallel with it, incredible isn't it. That is another story. I've learn't much from that in hindsight.
The Toronto revivalists and Todd Bentley are not in this category. They are hurting people hurting other hurting people. I'm sure after much pain they have caused themselves and others, many of them will see the error of their ways and make restitution. This is already happening now.... my love and forgiveness goes out to them all as I too have been a recipient of that same grace and forgiveness. I too have come out of my own delusions and deceptions.......as much as I am forgiven and have made restitution, the sad fact remains I live daily with the consequences of my choices.......as do those I love dearly.
Another sad fact remains that a large portion of these leaders will not and may never see their error and will go on causing chaos. Perhaps this is why I feel so strongly about this. It is a sad truth, you don't know you are blind until you see....and when you do, it's a painful awakening, mostly all the hurt you have caused others. Perhaps that's why I have such an intense prayer life....it's an expression of my gratefulness to God and others for their forgiveness, and a way of harnessing my regret. It's the meeting place with the God of my salvation, which I hold so precious.
I really do love the church so much even though I have been so rejected by her and I would say rightly so. I think I have certainly suffered for my own unrighteousness sake but have also chosen to suffer for His righteousness sake..... Jesus Christ did come in the flesh and still comes in the flesh today, through us. Yes, I do get hurt and I will continue to. It's not so bad feeling hurt now,especially now that I understand the cross,and also because many years ago, I was so hardened I would not allow myself to feel anything.
I've discovered that when you confront those you love or care about you are making yourself vulnerable. It is easier to be "silent to stay safe", but the price for that silence is extremely high in the long run. The response to the correction you give those in error is their responsibility not your own....so long as you know you have gi